China's prime minister Wen Jiabao speaks out in his first interview with a Western publication in years.
Wen in New York: 'China's democracy will continue to grow'
‘We Should Join Hands’
Fareed Zakaria
NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated Oct 6, 2008
In New York last week for the opening of the United Nations General Assembly, Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao gave a rare exclusive interview to NEWSWEEK's Fareed Zakaria. Wen, 66, is known for his openness and economic mastery, and has presided over some of the fastest growth in China's history. He began the conversation by pledging to "tell the truth" and invited Zakaria to interrupt him, since Wen "prefers dialogue to long-winded speeches." The two covered topics ranging from Tibet and Tiananmen Square to Darfur and human rights, from political philosophy to the U.S. elections, from the current financial crisis to the future of Chinese democracy. Excerpts:
ZAKARIA: What do you think of the financial crisis affecting the United States?
WEN: We should join hands and meet the crisis together. If the financial and economic system[s] in the United States go wrong, then the impact will be felt not only in this country, but also in China, in Asia and the world at large.
Regarding your own economy, many people now say there will be a significant slowdown. Do you think that will happen? And if it does, what do you think will be the consequences?
China's economy has been growing at an annual average rate of 9.6 percent for 30 years running. This is a miracle. And between 2003 and 2007, China enjoyed double-digit growth—yet the consumer price index grew less than 2 percent a year.
China has been proactive in adopting regulatory measures. Our previous concerns were to prevent a fast-growing economy from overheating and to prevent soaring prices from becoming inflation.
But things have changed very fast [because of] the subprime crisis in the United States and the serious turbulence that followed. We have seen a decline in external demand, and China's domestic demand cannot be significantly increased in a short period of time. [So] we do risk a slowdown. We must re-adjust macroeconomic policy.
Do you think you can continue to grow if the United States goes into a major recession?
Given the statistics for the first eight months of this year, we have managed to do that. [But] a U.S. recession would certainly have an impact on China's economy. Ten years ago, China–U.S. trade stood at only $102.6 billion. Today the figure has soared to $302 billion—a 1.5-fold increase. A shrinking of U.S. demand would certainly have an impact on China's exports. And U.S. finance is closely connected with Chinese finance. If anything goes wrong in the U.S. financial sector, we would be anxious about the security of Chinese capital.
China is the largest holder of U.S. Treasury bills - by some accounts, they're worth almost $1 trillion. Can you reassure [Americans] that China would never use this status as a weapon in some way?
We believe that the U.S. real economy is still solidly based, particularly the high-tech and basic industries. Something has gone wrong in the virtual economy, but if this problem is properly addressed, it is still possible to stabilize the economy. The Chinese government hopes to see sustained development in the United States, as that will benefit China. Of course, we are concerned about the safety and security of Chinese money here. But we believe that the United States is a credible country. And particularly at such difficult times, China has reached out to the United States. And actually we believe such a helping hand will help stabilize the entire global economy and finance and prevent major chaos from occurring ... I believe now that cooperation is everything.
Many people see China as a superpower already, and they wonder: why is it not being more active in political resolution of issues such as Darfur or Iran?
I need to correct some elements of your question. China is not a superpower. Although China has a population of 1.3 billion and although in recent years it has registered fairly fast economic and social development, China still has … 800 million farmers in rural areas and we still have dozens of millions of people living in poverty. We need to make committed and very earnest efforts to address these problems. That's why we need to focus on our own development and on our efforts to improve people's lives.
But surely the Chinese government could pressure the Sudanese government or the Iranian government or the government in Burma to be less repressive. You have relations with all three of them.
That brings me to your second question. China is a justice-upholding country. We never trade our principles. Take the Darfur issue that you raised just now, for example. China has always advocated a dual-track approach: China was among the first countries sending peacekeepers to Darfur. China was also the first country that gave assistance to Sudan, and we also keep [up] our efforts to engage the leaders in Sudan to try to seek a peaceful solution.
Do you think it would be dangerous for the world if Iran got nuclear weapons? And what do you think the world should do to try to prevent it?
We are not supportive of a nuclear rise for Iran. We believe that Iran has the right to develop a utilization of nuclear energy in a peaceful way. But such efforts should be subject to the safeguards of the IAEA, and Iran should not develop nuclear weapons … We hope that we can use peaceful talks to achieve the purpose, rather than resort to the willful use of force, or the intimidation of force. It's like a relationship between two individuals. If one individual tries to corner the other, the effect will be counterproductive. Our purpose is to resolve the problem, not to escalate tensions.
I have a question for you: don't you think that the efforts made by China in resolving the Korean nuclear issue have actually helped that situation? I know it will take time to [achieve] a complete solution to the Korean nuclear issue. But the model we have adopted has proved to be right in this direction.
China's efforts have been appreciated in the United States and around the world. And it makes people wish that China would be active in other areas in the same way.
We have gained a lot of experience and learned lessons from the years of negotiations. The progress made also had a lot to do with the close cooperation among the six parties in the talks.
The Dalai Lama says now he would accept China's rule in Tibet. Why don't you negotiate directly with him and solve this issue once and for all?
The Dalai Lama is a religious leader and enjoys certain influence in the Tibetan region. He is not an ordinary religious figure. The so-called government in exile founded by the Dalai Lama practices theocratic rule. And the purpose of this so-called government in exile is to separate Tibet from China. All over the world, the Dalai Lama keeps preaching about autonomy for the greater Tibetan region. He wants to separate the so-called greater Tibetan region from the motherland. Many people in the United States have no idea how big this region is; it covers Tibet, Sichuan, Yunnan, Qinghai and Gansu: a quarter of China's territory.
For decades, our policy [has been that] as long as the Dalai Lama is willing to recognize that Tibet is an inalienable part of China's territory, and as long as the Dalai Lama gives up his separatist activities, we're willing to have contact and talks with him or his representatives. Now, sincerity holds the key to producing results out of the talks.
What action would you like to see from the Dalai Lama that would show sincerity?
His sincerity can be demonstrated in giving up separatist activities. … Of course, talks may continue, and in light of the progress in the talks, we may also consider raising the level of the talks.
Premier Wen, your country has grown, as you pointed out, 9.5 percent for 30 years - the fastest growth rate of any country in history. What is the key to your success? What is the model?
[The answer is] the reforms and opening-up policy we introduced in 1978. We emancipated productivity in China. We had one important thought: that socialism can practice market economy.
People think that's a contradiction. How do you make both work?
Give full play to the basic role of market forces in allocating resources under the macroeconomic guidance and regulation of the government. Ensure that both the visible hand and the invisible hand are given full play. If you are familiar with Adam Smith, you will know that there are two famous works of his. "The Wealth of Nations" deals with the invisible hand: market forces. The other book deals with social equity and justice. In the other book, he stressed the importance of the regulatory role of the government to distribute wealth among the people. If most of the wealth in a country is concentrated in the hands of the few, this country can hardly [have] harmony and stability.
Some Americans and Europeans, particularly human-rights observers, say that China has cracked down on human rights over the last few years. They say they had hoped that the Olympics would lead to an opening, but there has been more repression. How would you respond?
By hosting the Olympics, China has become more open. Anyone without biases will see that. Freedom of speech and of media coverage are guaranteed in China. The Chinese government attaches importance to, and protects, human rights. We have incorporated these into the Chinese Constitution, and we also implement [them] in earnest. We don't think that we are impeccable in terms of human rights—it is true that in some places and in some areas, we have problems. Nonetheless, we are continuing to make improvements.
When I go to China and I'm in a hotel and I type the words "Tiananmen Square" into my computer, I get a firewall, what some people call the Great Firewall of China. Can you be an advanced society if you don't have freedom of information?
China now has over 200 million Internet users and the freedom of the Internet in China is recognized by many, even in the West. To uphold state security, China, like many countries in the world, has also imposed some proper restrictions. On the Internet in China, you can have access to a lot of postings that are quite critical about the government. It is exactly through reading these critical opinions on the Internet that we try to locate problems and further improve our work. I don't think a system or a government should fear critical opinions or views.
What are your favorite sites?
I've browsed a lot of Web sites.
There is a photograph of you at Tiananmen Square in 1989. What lesson did you take from your experiences in dealing with that problem? Did you feel it was necessary to stop political reform? Do you think in 25 years there will be national elections in which there will be competition?
I believe that while moving ahead with economic reforms, we also need to advance political reforms, as our development is comprehensive in nature, our reform should also be comprehensive. I think the core of your question is about the development of democracy in China. When it comes to the development of democracy in China, we can talk about progress in three areas.
No. 1: we need to gradually improve the democratic election system so that state power will truly belong to the people and state power will be used to serve the people.
No. 2: we need to improve the legal system, run the country according to law, and [have] an independent and just judicial system.
No. 3: government should be subject to oversight by the people. That will [require] us to increase transparency in government affairs. It is also necessary for government to accept oversight by the news media and other parties.
We need to take into account China's national conditions and we need to introduce a system that suits China's special features and we need to introduce a gradual approach.
It's hard for me to predict what will happen in 25 years. This being said, I have this conviction: that China's democracy will continue to grow. In 20 to 30 years, Chinese society will be more democratic and fairer and the legal system will be improved. Socialism as we see it will further mature and improve.
People say you're studying the Japanese system because there's democracy, but only one party seems to win elections. Is that the model you see for China?
There are multiple forms of democracy in the world. What is important is whether it really represents the interests of the people. Socialism as I understand it is a system of democracy. And such a democracy first and foremost should serve to ensure the people's right to democratic elections, oversight and decision making. Such a democracy should also help people to develop themselves in an all-around way in an environment featuring freedom and equality. And such a democracy should be based on a full-fledged legal system.
You've said that you've read the works of Marcus Aurelius a hundred times. He is a famous Stoic philosopher. My reading of him says that one should not be involved in the self, and in any kind of pursuits that are self-interested, but should be more for the community as a whole. When I go to China these days, I am struck by how much individualism there is, how much consumerism there is. Are you trying to send a signal to the Chinese people to think less about themselves and more about the community?
It is true I read the meditations of Marcus Aurelius on many occasions, and I was very deeply impressed by the words that he wrote. I very much value morality and do believe that entrepreneurs, economists and statesmen alike should pay much more attention to morality and ethics. In my mind, the highest standard to measure ethics and morality is justice. When we think about the economy, we think more about companies, capital, markets, technology, and so on. We might forget about elements like conviction and morality. Only when we combine these two kinds of factors can we [have] a full picture of the DNA of the economy. It is true that in the course of China's economic development, some companies have pursued profits at the expense of morality. We will never allow such things to happen, because such an approach simply cannot be sustained. That's why we advocate corporate, occupational and social ethics.
Let me ask you a final question. You must have been watching the American election. What is your reaction to this strange race?
The presidential election of the United States should be decided by the American people. What I follow very closely is [what] the relationship between China and the United States [will be like] after the election. In recent years, there has been sound growth in China-U.S. relations. We hope that whoever is elected president, he will continue to grow the relationship with China. And China hopes to continue to improve its relationship with the United States no matter who takes office.
URL: http://www.newsweek.com/id/161410
Here below is a transcript of Fareed Zakaria's interview with Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao.
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September 29, 2008 -- Updated 2220 GMT (0620 HKT)
Transcript of interview with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao
Story Highlights
- Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao was interviewed by Fareed Zakaria last week
- Jiabao says China has achieved fast and steady economic growth
- He says U.S. financial difficulties impact China
Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao was interviewed by Fareed Zakaria on "Fareed Zakaria GPS" this weekend
Below is the complete transcript of Fareed Zakaria's interview with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao. The interview was taped September 23, and portions were shown on "Fareed Zakaria GPS" on September 28.
Zakaria: We are now beginning the formal interview, just so everyone realizes.
Wen Jiabao: Before we begin, I would like to let you know that I will use the words from the bottom of my heart to answer your questions, which means that I will tell the truth to all your questions.
I always tell people that sometimes I may not tell what is on my mind, that as long as I speak out what is on my mind, the words are true.
I think you are now interviewing a statesman, and at the same time you are interviewing a statesman in his capacity as a common people.
I prefer dialogue to long-winded speeches, so you can always interrupt me and raise your questions. That would certainly make our dialogue more lively.
Zakaria: I look forward to the chance for this dialogue, and I begin by thanking you for giving us the opportunity and the honor. The first thing I have to ask you, I think is on many people's minds. What do you think of the current financial crisis affecting the United States, and does it make you think that the American model has many flaws in it that we are just recognizing now?
Wen Jiabao: I took office as the Chinese premier six years ago, and before then I was serving as the vice premier of the country. When I was the vice premier, I experienced another financial crisis but in Asia. And in wake of the Asian financial crisis, China adopted a proactive fiscal policy and decided not to devalue the RMB, the Chinese currency, but doing so we managed to overcome the difficulties. But now the problems in the United States started with the subprime crisis and later on, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were involved in the problems, and the Lehman Brothers was in trouble, Merrill Lynch was in trouble, the AIG was in trouble, and such large investment banking companies and insurance companies all encountered systematic problems.
And this has made me feel that this time the crisis that occurred in the United States may have an impact that will affect the whole world. Nonetheless, in face of such a crisis, we must also be aware that today's world is different from the world that people lived in back in the 1930s.
So this time we should join hands and meet the crisis together. If the financial and economic system in the United States go wrong, then the impact will be felt, not only in this country but also in China, in Asia and in the world at large.
I have noted a host of policies and measures adopted by the U.S. government to prevent an isolated crisis from becoming a systematic one, and I hope that measures and steps they have adopted will pay off. I also hope that these measures and steps will not only save some major U.S. financial companies but also help stabilize the U.S. economy and ensure that the U.S. economy will grow on a balanced course.
Zakaria: When you look at your own economy, as you know, there are many people who now say there will be a significant slowdown of the Chinese economy. There are people predicting that Chinese growth rates may slow to as much as 7 percent. Do you think that will happen? And if it does, I wonder, what do you think the consequences will be in China?
Wen Jiabao: Yes, indeed. China's economy has been growing at an annual average rate of 9.6 percent for 30 years running. This is a miracle.
Particularly between the year 2003 and 2007, China had enjoyed a double-digit growth for its economy, and at the same time the CPI grew in for less than 2 percent a year. It is fair to say that China has achieved a fairly fast and steady economic growth.
This time, China has been proactive in adopting regulatory measures. Our previous considerations were to prevent a fast-growing economy from becoming overheated and to prevent the faster soaring prices from becoming obvious inflation. But things have changed very fast, and I refer to the sub-prime crisis in the United States and the serious financial turbulences that follow the sub-prime crisis.
And as a result, we have seen a decline in external demand, and China's domestic demand can hardly be increased in a very significant manner in a short period of time. In this case, it is true that we do have this risk of a slowdown in the Chinese economy.
In this context, we must re-adjust the macroeconomic policy in China in order to adapt ourselves to external changes. What is most important is for us to strike a balance between economic growth, dampening the price rises and bringing inflation under control. And to strike a balance between job creation and dampening inflation and I know it's very, very difficult to strike a balance in all those areas.
We need to adopt a flexible and prudent macroeconomic policy to adapt to external changes in order to ensure very fast and steady economic growth and at the same time keeping inflation down.
Zakaria: Do you think you can continue to grow if the United States goes into a major recession?
Wen Jiabao: In the first half of this year, or given the statistics for the first eight months of this year, we can see that we have managed to do that.
A possible U.S. economic recession will certainly have an impact on the China economy. As we know that 10 years ago, the China-U.S. trade volume stood at only $102.6 billion U.S., while today the figures soar to $302 billion U.S., actually representing an increase of 1.5-fold. A shrinking of U.S. demand will certainly have an impact on China's export.
And the U.S. finance is closely connected with the Chinese finance. If anything goes wrong in the U.S. financial sector, we are anxious about the safety and security of Chinese capital.
That's why in the very beginning I have made it clear that the financial problems in this country not only concerns the interests of the United States but also that of China and the world at large.
Zakaria: There is another sense in which we are interdependent. China is the largest holder of U.S. Treasury bills. By some accounts, they're worth almost $1 trillion. It makes some Americans uneasy. Can you reassure them that China would never use this status as a weapon in some way?
Wen Jiabao: As I said, we believe that the U.S. real economy is still solidly based. Particularly the high-tech industries and the basic industries. Now, something has gone wrong in the virtual economy, but if this problem is properly addressed, then it is still possible to stabilize the economy in this country.
The Chinese government hopes very much that the U.S. side will be able to stabilize its economy and finance as quickly as possible, and we also hope to see sustained development in the United States as that will benefit China.
Of course, we are concerned about the safety and security of Chinese money here. But we believe that the United States is a credible country and particularly at such difficult times, China has reached out to the United States.
And actually we believe such a helping hand will help stabilize the entire global economy and finance and to prevent a major chaos from occurring in the global economic and financial system. I believe now cooperation is everything.
Zakaria: May I ask you about China's role in a broader sense? Many people see China as a superpower already, and they wonder: why is it not being more active in political resolution of issues such as the issue of Darfur or the issue of Iran and its nuclear ambitions?
There is a hope that China will play a role as a responsible stakeholder, to use Robert Zoellick's phrase when he was deputy secretary of state, and that China will be more active in managing the political problems in the world, and that so far it has not been active. How would you react to that?
Wen Jiabao: To answer this question, I need to correct some of the elements in your question first. China is NOT a superpower. Although China has a population of 1.3 billion and although in recent years China has registered fairly fast economic and social development since reform and opening up, China still has this problem of unbalanced development between different regions and between China's urban and rural areas. China remains a developing country.
We still have 800 million farmers in rural areas, and we still have dozens of million people living in poverty. As a matter of fact, over 60 million people in rural and urban areas in China still live on allowances for basic living costs in my country. And each year, we need to take care of about 23 million unemployed in urban areas and about 200 million farmers come and go to cities to find jobs in China. We need to make committed and very earnest efforts to address all these problems.
To address our own problems, we need to do a great deal. China is not a superpower. That's why we need to focus on our own development and on our efforts to improve people's lives.
Zakaria: But surely the Chinese government could pressure the Sudanese government or the Iranian government or the government in Burma to be less repressive. You have relations with all three of them.
Wen Jiabao: That brings me to your second question. Actually in the international community, China is a justice-upholding country. We never trade our principles.
Take the Darfur issue that you raised just now for example. China has always advocated that we need to adopt a dual-track approach to seek a solution to the Darfur issue. China was among the first countries sending peace-keepers to Darfur.
China was also the first country that gave assistance to Sudan and we also keep our efforts to engage the leaders in Sudan to try to seek a peaceful solution to the issue as quickly as possible.
Zakaria: Do you think it would be dangerous for the world if Iran got nuclear weapons? And what do you think the world should do to try to stop that possibility?
Wen Jiabao: We are not supportive of a nuclear rise to Iran. We believe that Iran has the right to develop a utilization of nuclear energy in a peaceful way. But such efforts should be subject to the safeguards of the [International Atomic Energy Agency], and Iran should not develop nuclear weapons. As far as the Iranian nuclear issue is concerned, China's stance is clear-cut.
We hope that through promoting the talks concerning this issue, that we will be able to encourage the Iranian authorities to give up any idea to develop nuclear weapons and accept IAEA safeguards.
Nonetheless, we hope that we can use peaceful talks to achieve the purpose, rather than resort to the willful use of force or the intimidation of force. It's like treating the relationship between two individuals. If one individual tries to corner the other, then the effect will be counterproductive. That will do nothing in helping resolve the problem. Our purpose is to resolve the problem, not to escalate tensions.
And I also have a question for you: Don't you think that the efforts made by China in resolving the Korean nuclear issue and position we have adopted in this regard have actually helped the situation on the Korean peninsula move for the better day by day? And, of course, I know that it still takes time to seek a thorough and complete solution to the Korean nuclear issue, and on that basis to help put in place the security and stability in Northeast Asia. But, what I'd like to stress is that the model that we have adopted, and the efforts we have made, prove to be right in this, in this direction.
Zakaria: Since you honored me by asking the question, I will say to you, premier, that China's efforts in North Korea have been appreciated in the United States and around the world. And of course it makes people wish that China would be active in other areas in just the same productive way that it was in North Korea because we see that it produces results.
Wen Jiabao: We have gained a lot of experience and learned lessons from years of negotiations concerning the six-party talks, and the progress made in the six-party talks also has a lot to do with the close cooperation among the six parties.
Zakaria: May I ask you about another set of possible talks? The Dalai Lama has said now it appears that he would accept China's rule in Tibet, he accepts the socialist system in Tibet, and what he asks for is cultural autonomy and a certain degree of political autonomy. The talks apparently are stuck at a lower level between the Tibetans and the Chinese government. Why don't you, given your power and your negotiating skills, take the issue yourself -- and you or President Hu Jintao would negotiate directly with the Dalai Lama and solve this issue once and for all for the benefit of the Chinese people, and of course the Tibetan people who are also in China?
Wen Jiabao: Our issue with the Dalai Lama is not an ethnic, religious or cultural issue in the ordinary sense. It's a major principled issue concerning safeguarding the country's unity or allowing efforts to separate a country. And we must adopt a two-pronged approach in viewing the Dalai Lama. On one hand, it is true that the Dalai is a religious leader, and he enjoys certain influence in the Tibetan region, and particularly in regions that the inhabitants believe in Buddhism. And, on the other hand, we must also be aware that he is not an ordinary religious figure. The so-called government in exile founded by the Dalai Lama practices a theocratic rule. And the purpose of this so-called government in exile is to separate Tibet from China.
In many places all over the world, the Dalai Lama keeps preaching about the idea of a so-called autonomy in the greater Tibetan region. And actually, the so-called autonomy that he pursues is actually to use religion to intervene in politics. They want to separate the so-called greater Tibetan region from the motherland. And many people in the United States have no idea how big is the so-called greater Tibetan region, the so-called greater Tibetan region, preached by the Dalai Lama, actually covers Tibet, Sichuan, Yunnan, Qinghai and Gansu -- altogether five provinces. And the area covered by the so-called greater Tibetan region accounts for a quarter of China's territory.
For decades, our policy towards the Dalai Lama remains unchanged: that is, as long as the Dalai Lama is willing to recognize that Tibet is an inalienable part of China's territory, and as long as the Dalai Lama gives up his separatist activities, we're willing to have contact and talks with him or his representatives.
Now, sincerity holds the key to producing result out of the talks. After the Tibet incident back in the 1950's, the highest leader of the central government, Mr. Deng Xiaoping, also met the representatives of the Dalai Lama.
So, I don't think there is this problem, as whether I can have contact with the Dalai Lama. The real key lies in the effectiveness of such contact and talks.
We hope that he can use real actions to show sincerity and break the deadlock.
Zakaria: What action would you like to see from the Dalai Lama that would show sincerity?
Wen Jiabao: Actually, I already made it clear that when we observe any individual, the Dalai Lama included, we should not only watch what, we should not only observe what he says, but also watch what he does.
His sincerity can be demonstrated in giving up separatist activities.
Zakaria: And then you might meet with him?
Wen Jiabao: By then, everything depends on the development of the situation. Of course, talks may continue, and in light of the progress in the talks, we may also consider raising the level of the talks.
Zakaria: Premier Wen, your country has grown, as you pointed out, 9½ percent for 30 years -- fastest growth rate of any country in history. If people come to you and say to you, "What is the Chinese model of succeeding as a developing country?" What would you say? What is the key to your success? What is the model?
Wen Jiabao: It's easy to answer this question, that you may think about this thing -- that about 30 years ago, why China was not able to grow as fast as it has in the following years. I think this is attributable to the reforms and opening up a policy we introduced in 1978. This holds the key to China's success. By introducing reform and opening up, we have greatly emancipated productivity in China.
We have one important thought: that socialism can also practice market economy.
Zakaria: People think that's a contradiction. You have the market economy, where the market allocates resources, and in socialism, it's all central planning. How do you make both work?
Wen Jiabao: The complete formulation of our economic policy is to give full play to the basic role of market forces in allocating resources under the macroeconomic guidance and regulation of the government.
We have one important piece of experience of the past 30 years: that is to ensure that both the visible hand and the invisible hand are given full play in regulating the market forces.
If you are familiar with the classical works of Adam Smith, you will know that there are two famous works of his. One is "The Wealth of Nations"; the other is the book on the morality and ethics. And, "The Wealth of Nations" deals more with the invisible hand that are the market forces. And the other book deals with social equity and justice. And in the other book he wrote, he stressed the importance of playing the regulatory role of the government to further distribute the wealth among the people.
If in a country, most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few, then this country can hardly witness harmony and stability.
The same approach also applies to the current U.S. economy. To address the current economic and financial problems in this country, we need to apply not only the visible hand but also the invisible hand.
Zakaria: May I ask you -- some Americans and Europeans, particularly human rights observers, say that China has cracked down on human rights over the last few years, that they had been hoping that the Olympics would lead to an opening of China, but that it has, there has been more repression. How would you respond to that?
Wen Jiabao: By hosting the Olympic Games, China has actually become more open. Anyone without biases will see -- have seen that. In the freedom of speech and the freedom in news media coverage are guaranteed in China. The Chinese government attaches importance to, and protects, human rights. We have incorporated these lines into the Chinese constitution, and we also implement the stipulation in real earnest. I think for any government, what is most important, is to ensure that its people enjoy each and every right given to them by the constitution.
Including their right to survival, freedom and to pursue their happiness.
We don't think that we are impeccable in terms of human rights. It is true that in some places and in some areas, we do have problems of this kind or that kind. Nonetheless, we are continuing to make efforts to make improvements, and we want to further improve human rights in our country.
Zakaria: When I go to China and I'm in a hotel and I type in the words Tiananmen Square in my computer, I get a firewall, what some people call the Great Firewall of China. Can you be an advanced society if you don't have freedom of information to find out information on the Internet?
Wen Jiabao: China now has over 200 million Internet users, and the freedom of Internet in China is recognized by many, even from the west. Nonetheless, to uphold state security, China, like many countries in the world, has also imposed some proper restrictions. That is for the safety, that is for the overall safety of the country and for the freedom of the majority of the people.
I can also tell you on the Internet in China, you can have access to a lot of postings that are quite critical about the government.
It is exactly through reading these critical opinions on the Internet that we try to locate problems and further improve our work.
I don't think a system or a government should fear critical opinions or views. Only by heeding those critical views would it be possible for us to further improve our work and make further progress.
I frequently browse the Internet to learn about a situation.
Zakaria: What are your favorite sites?
Wen Jiabao: I've browsed a lot of Internet Web sites.
Zakaria: I will take advantage of your kindness and ask you a question that many people around the world wonder about. There is a very famous photograph of you at Tiananmen square in 1989. What lesson did you take from your experiences in dealing with that problem in 1989?
Wen Jiabao: I believe that while moving ahead with economic reforms, we also need to advance political reforms, as our development is comprehensive in nature, our reform should also be comprehensive.
I think the core of your question is about the development of democracy in China. I believe when it comes to the development of democracy in China, we talk about progress to be made in three areas:
No. 1: We need to gradually improve the democratic election system so that state power will truly belong to the people and state power will be used to serve the people
No. 2: We need to improve the legal system, run the country according to law, and establish the country under the rule of law and we need to view an independent and just judicial system.
No. 3: Government should be subject to oversight by the people and that will ask us, call on us to increase transparency in government affairs and particularly it is also necessary for government to accept oversight by the news media and other parties.
There is also another important aspect that when it comes to development of democracy in China, we need to take into account China's national conditions, and we need to introduce a system that suits China's special features, and we need to introduce a gradual approach.
Zakaria: People say you're studying the Japanese system because there's democracy but there's only one party that seems to win the elections. Is that the kind of model you see for China?
Wen Jiabao: I think there are multiple forms of democracy in the world. What is important is the substance of democracy.
Which means that at the end of the day, what is important about democracy is that whether such form of democracy can really represent the calling and interest of the people.
Socialism as I understand it is a system of democracy. Without democracy, there is no socialism.
And such a democracy first and foremost should serve to ensure people's right to democratic elections, oversight and decision making.
Such a democracy should also help people to fully develop themselves in an all-around way in an environment featuring freedom and equality.
And such a democracy should be based on a full-fledged legal system. Otherwise, there would be chaos. That's why we need to run the country according to law and ensure that everyone is equal under the law.
Zakaria: We've talked about elections many times. Do you think in 25 years there will be national elections in which there will be a competition, there will be perhaps two parties, that will be running for a position such as your own?
Wen Jiabao: It's hard for me to predict what will happen in 25 years time. This being said, I have this conviction -- that China's democracy will continue to grow. In 20 to 30 years time, the whole Chinese society will be more democratic and fairer, and the legal system in China will further be improved. The socialism as we see it will further mature and improve.
Zakaria: Let me ask you, premier, finally a couple of questions that are personal. You've said that you've read the works of Marcus Aurelius a hundred times. Marcus Aurelius is a famous stoic philosopher. My reading of him says that one should not be involved in the self, and in any kind of pursuits that are self-interested but should be more for the community as a whole. When I go to China these days, I am struck by how much individualism there is, how much consumerism there is. Are you trying to send a signal to the Chinese people to think less about themselves and more about the community?
Wen Jiabao: It is true I did read the meditations written by Marcus Aurelius Antonio on many occasions, and I was very deeply impressed by the words that he wrote in the book -- to be fact - where are those people that were great for a time? They are all gone, leaving only a story, or some even just half a story. So I draw the conclusion that only people are in the position to create history and write history.
I very much value morality, and I do believe that entrepreneurs, economists and statesmen alike should pay much more attention to morality and ethics.
In my mind, the highest standard to measure the ethics and morality is justice.
That's why in the morning when I answered the question, I said that I believe in the veins of the economist, we should see the blood of morality.
When we think about economy, we think more about the real elements concerning the company, the capital, the market, the technology, so on and so forth. And we might forget about the other sort of elements that work behind the scene, and these factors are also affected by the visible factors like conviction and morality. Only when we combine these two kinds of factors, can we put in place a full picture of the DNA of the economy.
It is true in the course of China's economic development, some companies have actually pursued their profits at the expense of morality and we will never allow such things to happen.
We will not allow economic growth at the expense of the loss of morality because such approach simply can not sustain.
That's why we advocate the corporate, occupational and social ethics.
Zakaria: Let me ask you a final question, your excellency. You must have been watching the American election. What is your reaction to the strange race and election that we are having in this country?
Wen Jiabao: The presidential election of the United States should be decided by the American people. But what I follow very closely is the relationship between China and the United States after the election. In recent years, there has been a sound growth momentum in the growth of China-U.S. relations. And we hope, and whoever is elected as the president and whoever is sworn in into the White House, no matter which party wins the election, that he or she and the parties will continue to grow the relationship with China. And China hopes to continue to improve and grow its relationship with the United States no matter who will take office and lead the new administration in this country.
Zakaria: On that happy note, I thank you, your excellency. I'm sure your people are worried we took a little extra time. And I thank you in advance for your kindness and your frankness.
Sunday, October 05, 2008
Tuesday, October 04, 2005
The Significance of Sino-Russian Military Exercises
Between the dates of August 18-25, 2005, Russia and China participated in their first ever bilateral war games, dubbed Peace Mission 2005. The games were symbolic of the growing cooperation between the two powerful states. Since the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, which led to an increasingly influential role for Washington in Central Asia, Moscow and Beijing have drawn together under the common interest of preventing further U.S. influence in the region.
Read full post at Inter Press Network: The Significance of Sino-Russian Military Exercises, September 15, 2005, by Erich Marquardt, Yevgeny Bendersky.
Read full post at Inter Press Network: The Significance of Sino-Russian Military Exercises, September 15, 2005, by Erich Marquardt, Yevgeny Bendersky.
Sino-African Relations and Tibet
Africa is in the grip of the Red Dragon? Note this excerpt from Times of Tibet on Sino-African Relations and Tibet by Admin Dorjee, 4 October 2005:
Tibetans will soon witness the march into their country by South African companies assisting and collaborating with the Chinese government to further marginalise the indigenous people. This scenario was alluded to by China's ambassador to South Africa, Mr. Liu Guijin, when in February, 2005 he stated "The Chinese government welcomes and encourages investment and participation in the development of the Western [i.e. Tibet] region." For China, Africa is a continent ripe for exploitation and economic colonisation, and a very useful ally in muffling the Tibetan freedom movement.
So, as the 7th October arrives - and with it the 55th year of the PRCs illegal occupation of the sovereign nation of Tibet - the Tibetans enjoy only toothless support from the West, with much palm-pressing at cultural fora and inter-faith gatherings, but no speeches of outrage or diplomatic mobilisation in the arenas of secular power. The impoverished, voiceless and supplicating Tibetans will have to face the reality that the entire continent of Africa is in the grip of the Red Dragon, ready to be exploited, manipulated and wielded as a powerful tool against the people of Tibet and their rights to self-determination. Soon, the PRCs economic, cultural, spiritual and environmental programme of genocide in Tibet will be complete, and the retrospective shame of the global community will be too little, too late.
Tibetans will soon witness the march into their country by South African companies assisting and collaborating with the Chinese government to further marginalise the indigenous people. This scenario was alluded to by China's ambassador to South Africa, Mr. Liu Guijin, when in February, 2005 he stated "The Chinese government welcomes and encourages investment and participation in the development of the Western [i.e. Tibet] region." For China, Africa is a continent ripe for exploitation and economic colonisation, and a very useful ally in muffling the Tibetan freedom movement.
So, as the 7th October arrives - and with it the 55th year of the PRCs illegal occupation of the sovereign nation of Tibet - the Tibetans enjoy only toothless support from the West, with much palm-pressing at cultural fora and inter-faith gatherings, but no speeches of outrage or diplomatic mobilisation in the arenas of secular power. The impoverished, voiceless and supplicating Tibetans will have to face the reality that the entire continent of Africa is in the grip of the Red Dragon, ready to be exploited, manipulated and wielded as a powerful tool against the people of Tibet and their rights to self-determination. Soon, the PRCs economic, cultural, spiritual and environmental programme of genocide in Tibet will be complete, and the retrospective shame of the global community will be too little, too late.
Friday, September 30, 2005
China's leaders launch new attack on internet free speech
The Blog Herald says Chinese bloggers are about to face another wave of Government sanctions and harassment, with an announcement by the Chinese Government of a new crackdown against news on the internet deemed "not in the national interest."
Also, The Blog Herald points to a Sep 26 Guardian article by Benjamin Joffe-Walt in Shanghai saying:
The 11 subjects forbidden to Chinese bloggers:
"Bloggers are banned from putting out news that:
- violates the basic principles of the Chinese constitution:
- endangers national security, leaks national secrets, seeks to overthrow the government, endangers the unification of the country;
- destroys the country's reputation and benefits;
- arouses national feelings of hatred, racism, and endangers racial unification;
- violates national policies on religion, promotes the propaganda of sects and superstition;
- diffuses rumours, endangers public order and creates social uncertainty;
- diffuses information that is pornographic, violent, terrorist or linked to gambling;
- libels or harms people's reputation, violates people's legal rights;
- includes illegal information bounded by law and administrative rules.
and the final two dictates that:
- It is forbidden to encourage illegal gatherings, strikes, etc to create public disorder;
- It is forbidden to organise activities under illegal social associations or organisations.
"Blogs that break these new rules will be shut down and those running them will have to pay a fine that could reach 30,000 yuans (aprox $3,500 USD)."
- - -
UPDATE Sep 30: See Global Voices Sep 30 - Chinese Bloggers on the New Internet Regulation.
Tags: China Chinese bloggers forbidden Blog Herald Yellow Pages free speech
Also, The Blog Herald points to a Sep 26 Guardian article by Benjamin Joffe-Walt in Shanghai saying:
The announcement from the Chinese Government called for blogs and personal web pages to "be directed towards serving the people and socialism and insist on correct guidance of public opinion for maintaining national and public interests".In addition to above links - with thanks to Australian blogger Pip Wilson at Yellow Pages - is this list from Reporters Without Borders:
The 11 subjects forbidden to Chinese bloggers:
"Bloggers are banned from putting out news that:
- violates the basic principles of the Chinese constitution:
- endangers national security, leaks national secrets, seeks to overthrow the government, endangers the unification of the country;
- destroys the country's reputation and benefits;
- arouses national feelings of hatred, racism, and endangers racial unification;
- violates national policies on religion, promotes the propaganda of sects and superstition;
- diffuses rumours, endangers public order and creates social uncertainty;
- diffuses information that is pornographic, violent, terrorist or linked to gambling;
- libels or harms people's reputation, violates people's legal rights;
- includes illegal information bounded by law and administrative rules.
and the final two dictates that:
- It is forbidden to encourage illegal gatherings, strikes, etc to create public disorder;
- It is forbidden to organise activities under illegal social associations or organisations.
"Blogs that break these new rules will be shut down and those running them will have to pay a fine that could reach 30,000 yuans (aprox $3,500 USD)."
- - -
UPDATE Sep 30: See Global Voices Sep 30 - Chinese Bloggers on the New Internet Regulation.
Tags: China Chinese bloggers forbidden Blog Herald Yellow Pages free speech
Thursday, September 29, 2005
Movie review of Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion
Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion is an extraordinary documentary about the near-destruction of an enlightened 1,700 year old culture, the incredible suffering of a violated people, and the spiritual survival of hope in the hearts of those who believe that one day they will be able to re-taste the joys of freedom.
The film is bound to stir your conscience, appeal to your yearning for justice, and inspire you to do all you can to advance the cause of the Tibetan people.
Photo: A fresco of Buddha defaced by a bullet hole at temple ruins in central Tibet
Director and cinematographer Tom Peosay spent ten years on this vast and substantive project shot on "the rooftop of the world."
Interviews provide both historical and contemporary perspectives on the situation in Tibet, including commentaries by:
His Holiness the Dalai Lama;
Lhasang Tserling, founder of the Amnye Machen Institute for Higher Tibetan Studies;
Robert Thurman, Director of Tibet House in New York City;
John Avedon, author of In Exile from the Land of Snows;
Stephen Batchelor, Buddhist scholar and author;
Robert Ford, author of Wind Between the Worlds and one of the few westerners to have lived in pre-Chinese Tibet;
Blake Kerr, author of Sky Burial: An Eyewitness Account of China's Brutal Crackdown in Tibet;
Drew Liu, Executive Director of the China Strategic Institute in Washington, D.C;
and many others.
The following review of Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion, is authored by Frederic and Mary Ann Brussat.
Photo: A Khamba rider at a horseback riding festival in Eastern Tibet
Some remarkable scenes draw out our compassion for the Tibetan people and their ongoing ordeals under Chinese Communist oppression since the so-called "peaceful liberation" of the country in 1949.
Pre-occupation Tibet was a Buddhist theocracy, a country that invested 85% of its national budget to support monastic universities where monks and nuns studied the nature of the mind. That would be the equivalent, notes Robert Thurman, of the entire U.S. defence budget going into education so as to produce "enlightened people." Because the monasteries also controlled the land, when the Chinese invaded, the religious establishment was targeted for destruction.
The opening sequence uses rare archival and undercover footage to cover the Lhasa demonstrations of 1987 during which the monk Jampa Tenzinm was severely burned while rescuing some of his peers from a burning police station where they were being detained. He was hailed as a hero for his courage and witness at the time, but he was eventually arrested by the Chinese, tortured, and killed.
Photo: Jampa Tenzin after rescuing demonstrations from a burning police station during a demonstration against Chinese rule in 1987 (Ackerly/ICT)
Then there is the little known story of the CIA's support of the Tibetan resistance movement, which is told by activists who were trained by in the United States but later were abandoned when the world's democratic leader set up trade relations with China and downplayed human rights violations in both Tibet and China. Once again economic priorities defined American interest.
Two survivors of years of imprisonment and torture by the Chinese share their stories. One is Ani Pachen, the daughter of a chieftan in eastern Tibet who recalls fondly her childhood in pre-occupation Tibet. She took vows as a nun but after her father's death led his forces against the Chinese. She spent 21 years in prison and was only one of four survivors of 100 women in her prison. She shows a quilt she has stitched together out of pieces of their clothing.
Photo: A demonstration by a Chinese Army unit at a Tibetan festival
Equally mesmerising is the account of Palden Gyatso, a monk who was captured in a crackdown after the Dalai Lama escaped; he spent 33 years in a series of prisons, labor camps, and various forms of house arrest. After enduring years of brutal torture, including the use electric cattle prods in his mouth, this monk fled to India. He has testified before the U.S. Congress and the U.N. Commission on Human Rights.
Still, to date, the United Nations has done nothing to challenge China's illegal and immoral occupation of Tibet.
Photo: Tibetan monks parade past Chinese soldiers at a festival in central Tibet
Of course, the Dalai Lama remains the most persuasive spokesperson for the plight of his people. Again and again, he emphasises that he holds no hatred in his heart for the Chinese oppressors, and in fact, sees them as teachers who spur him to the spiritual practice of compassion.
The Dalai Lama's "Five Point Peace Plan" has been well received by devotees of nonviolence. Tibet is strategically located between the two most populous countries in the world, China and India, so his proposal that the area become a demilitarized "Zone of Peace" seems both creative and sound.
But although the Chinese have rebuilt several monasteries — after destroying 1,600 of them — they are still trying to obliterate any memory of the Dalai Lama: it is a major offence in Tibet today to possess a picture of him. And as a Chinese government spokesperson at the Washington, D.C., Embassy of the People's Republic of China puts it: "It is totally unacceptable to the Chinese government for officials of any country to meet him in any form."
Photo: The Dalai Lama receiving the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989
China's latest method of stamping out Tibetan religion and culture is the construction of a railroad that will accelerate populating the area with ethnic Chinese. The documentary reveals how these new immigrants have already changed the face of Lhasa with large apartment complexes, brothels, and Western chain stores.
The Chinese policy of colonization and assimilation looks very similar to what officials and politicians did to the Native Americans in the United States and the aboriginals in Australia. As this documentary points out, many Tibetans now live in poverty and are unemployed. With their religion and culture under attack, they have little to cling to except hope that one day they will be free to determine their own future.
We were moved, shocked, appalled, and emboldened by Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion.
Photo: A group of exiled Tibetan monks at a candlelight vigil in Dharamsala, India
The tradition of nonviolence, optimism, mind training, and compassion that has been nurtured in Tibetan monasteries for centuries is one of the great religious legacies to the world where violence, nationalism, political oppression, human rights violations, and corporate greed hold sway.
The bodhissatva spirit incarnated by the Dalai Lama and so many Tibetan monks is a path that can end the suffering of human beings and quash the fires of hatred. Robert Thurman has called the Tibetan Buddhists "the supreme artists of life," and they are spreading their dharma all over the face of the earth.
The documentary is written by Sue Peosay and Victoria Mudd, narrated by Martin Sheen and produced by Tom Peosay and Sue Peosay of Zambuling Pictures, and Maria Florio and Victoria Mudd of Earthworks Films.
Florio and Mudd won the Best Documentary Feature Academy Award in 1986 for their film Broken Rainbow, which exposed the shameful forced relocation of Navajo Indians off their land in the 1970s.
They hope that, just as their previous film raised the awareness and compassion of Americans toward the plight of the Native Americans, this film will raise the concerns of Chinese about the actions of their government.
The film is bound to stir your conscience, appeal to your yearning for justice, and inspire you to do all you can to advance the cause of the Tibetan people.
Photo: A fresco of Buddha defaced by a bullet hole at temple ruins in central Tibet
Director and cinematographer Tom Peosay spent ten years on this vast and substantive project shot on "the rooftop of the world."
Interviews provide both historical and contemporary perspectives on the situation in Tibet, including commentaries by:
His Holiness the Dalai Lama;
Lhasang Tserling, founder of the Amnye Machen Institute for Higher Tibetan Studies;
Robert Thurman, Director of Tibet House in New York City;
John Avedon, author of In Exile from the Land of Snows;
Stephen Batchelor, Buddhist scholar and author;
Robert Ford, author of Wind Between the Worlds and one of the few westerners to have lived in pre-Chinese Tibet;
Blake Kerr, author of Sky Burial: An Eyewitness Account of China's Brutal Crackdown in Tibet;
Drew Liu, Executive Director of the China Strategic Institute in Washington, D.C;
and many others.
The following review of Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion, is authored by Frederic and Mary Ann Brussat.
Photo: A Khamba rider at a horseback riding festival in Eastern Tibet
Some remarkable scenes draw out our compassion for the Tibetan people and their ongoing ordeals under Chinese Communist oppression since the so-called "peaceful liberation" of the country in 1949.
Pre-occupation Tibet was a Buddhist theocracy, a country that invested 85% of its national budget to support monastic universities where monks and nuns studied the nature of the mind. That would be the equivalent, notes Robert Thurman, of the entire U.S. defence budget going into education so as to produce "enlightened people." Because the monasteries also controlled the land, when the Chinese invaded, the religious establishment was targeted for destruction.
The opening sequence uses rare archival and undercover footage to cover the Lhasa demonstrations of 1987 during which the monk Jampa Tenzinm was severely burned while rescuing some of his peers from a burning police station where they were being detained. He was hailed as a hero for his courage and witness at the time, but he was eventually arrested by the Chinese, tortured, and killed.
Photo: Jampa Tenzin after rescuing demonstrations from a burning police station during a demonstration against Chinese rule in 1987 (Ackerly/ICT)
Then there is the little known story of the CIA's support of the Tibetan resistance movement, which is told by activists who were trained by in the United States but later were abandoned when the world's democratic leader set up trade relations with China and downplayed human rights violations in both Tibet and China. Once again economic priorities defined American interest.
Two survivors of years of imprisonment and torture by the Chinese share their stories. One is Ani Pachen, the daughter of a chieftan in eastern Tibet who recalls fondly her childhood in pre-occupation Tibet. She took vows as a nun but after her father's death led his forces against the Chinese. She spent 21 years in prison and was only one of four survivors of 100 women in her prison. She shows a quilt she has stitched together out of pieces of their clothing.
Photo: A demonstration by a Chinese Army unit at a Tibetan festival
Equally mesmerising is the account of Palden Gyatso, a monk who was captured in a crackdown after the Dalai Lama escaped; he spent 33 years in a series of prisons, labor camps, and various forms of house arrest. After enduring years of brutal torture, including the use electric cattle prods in his mouth, this monk fled to India. He has testified before the U.S. Congress and the U.N. Commission on Human Rights.
Still, to date, the United Nations has done nothing to challenge China's illegal and immoral occupation of Tibet.
Photo: Tibetan monks parade past Chinese soldiers at a festival in central Tibet
Of course, the Dalai Lama remains the most persuasive spokesperson for the plight of his people. Again and again, he emphasises that he holds no hatred in his heart for the Chinese oppressors, and in fact, sees them as teachers who spur him to the spiritual practice of compassion.
The Dalai Lama's "Five Point Peace Plan" has been well received by devotees of nonviolence. Tibet is strategically located between the two most populous countries in the world, China and India, so his proposal that the area become a demilitarized "Zone of Peace" seems both creative and sound.
But although the Chinese have rebuilt several monasteries — after destroying 1,600 of them — they are still trying to obliterate any memory of the Dalai Lama: it is a major offence in Tibet today to possess a picture of him. And as a Chinese government spokesperson at the Washington, D.C., Embassy of the People's Republic of China puts it: "It is totally unacceptable to the Chinese government for officials of any country to meet him in any form."
Photo: The Dalai Lama receiving the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989
China's latest method of stamping out Tibetan religion and culture is the construction of a railroad that will accelerate populating the area with ethnic Chinese. The documentary reveals how these new immigrants have already changed the face of Lhasa with large apartment complexes, brothels, and Western chain stores.
The Chinese policy of colonization and assimilation looks very similar to what officials and politicians did to the Native Americans in the United States and the aboriginals in Australia. As this documentary points out, many Tibetans now live in poverty and are unemployed. With their religion and culture under attack, they have little to cling to except hope that one day they will be free to determine their own future.
We were moved, shocked, appalled, and emboldened by Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion.
Photo: A group of exiled Tibetan monks at a candlelight vigil in Dharamsala, India
The tradition of nonviolence, optimism, mind training, and compassion that has been nurtured in Tibetan monasteries for centuries is one of the great religious legacies to the world where violence, nationalism, political oppression, human rights violations, and corporate greed hold sway.
The bodhissatva spirit incarnated by the Dalai Lama and so many Tibetan monks is a path that can end the suffering of human beings and quash the fires of hatred. Robert Thurman has called the Tibetan Buddhists "the supreme artists of life," and they are spreading their dharma all over the face of the earth.
The documentary is written by Sue Peosay and Victoria Mudd, narrated by Martin Sheen and produced by Tom Peosay and Sue Peosay of Zambuling Pictures, and Maria Florio and Victoria Mudd of Earthworks Films.
Florio and Mudd won the Best Documentary Feature Academy Award in 1986 for their film Broken Rainbow, which exposed the shameful forced relocation of Navajo Indians off their land in the 1970s.
They hope that, just as their previous film raised the awareness and compassion of Americans toward the plight of the Native Americans, this film will raise the concerns of Chinese about the actions of their government.
Tuesday, May 17, 2005
The future of public radio in the age of podcasting: Anybody can create their own public radio online
Note Rebecca MacKinnon's post linking to a live webcast from Harvard's Berkman Center today, May 17, 2005.
Jake Shapiro of the Public Radio Exchange will talk about the future of public radio in the age of podcasting, which enables anybody to create their own public radio online.
- - -
Open Source. It'll be a radio show. May 30, 2005
Here is a don't miss, must-do: listen to Open Source's pilot on podcasting and bloggers without borders. Hear phone interviews and discussions with Rebecca and Ethan of Global Voices, and several other bloggers, hosted by smooth (and thankfully not-so-fast) talking American Christopher Lydon at Harvad's Berkman.
See Ethan's follow-up post "On hold with Chris Lydon".
Note also GlobalCoordinate.com Geo-Community. Click on the map to zoom in. You can add your own comments, stories, or photos at any location.
Tags: Tehran Iran Podcast Blog Podcasting Radio Audioblogging Zuckermann LydonMacKinnon Shapiro Berkman Harvard
Jake Shapiro of the Public Radio Exchange will talk about the future of public radio in the age of podcasting, which enables anybody to create their own public radio online.
- - -
Open Source. It'll be a radio show. May 30, 2005
Here is a don't miss, must-do: listen to Open Source's pilot on podcasting and bloggers without borders. Hear phone interviews and discussions with Rebecca and Ethan of Global Voices, and several other bloggers, hosted by smooth (and thankfully not-so-fast) talking American Christopher Lydon at Harvad's Berkman.
See Ethan's follow-up post "On hold with Chris Lydon".
Note also GlobalCoordinate.com Geo-Community. Click on the map to zoom in. You can add your own comments, stories, or photos at any location.
Tags: Tehran Iran Podcast Blog Podcasting Radio Audioblogging Zuckermann LydonMacKinnon Shapiro Berkman Harvard
Friday, September 24, 2004
China paves the way for possible return of the Dalai Lama
Some good news today from the UK Independent says China is paving the way for a possible return of the Dalai Lama.
So many changes are taking place within China. Great things could happen before the Olympics open in Beijing in 2008. Hosting the Olympic games would be a great PR opportunity for China to show the world it is changing for the better.
The report, written by Jasper Becker in Beijing and dated September 24, 2004, is copied here in full for writing a post on at a later date as and when more news appears.
Envoys of the Dalai Lama are in Tibet discussing his possible return to the disputed mountain nation. Lodi Gyari, the Dalai Lama's quasi ambassador in Washington, is leading a four-man delegation which arrived in China a week ago.
It is the third such visit since contact was re-established between the two sides in September 2002.
Western diplomats believe that the resumption of talks is cause for optimism that the Tibetan holy leader could return home. "For the first time you have a Chinese leader who knows Tibet," said one diplomat.
Hu Jintao, who became head of the Chinese Communist Party two years ago, was party secretary of the Tibet Autonomous Region from 1988 to 1992. His predecessor, Jiang Zemin, retired from his last post on Sunday, leaving Mr Hu in complete control over foreign and domestic policies.
Mr Hu may push a more conciliatory line over Tibet and other issues as part of a broader effort both to normalise China's political system and to improve its international image.
Mary Beth Markey, executive director of the International Campaign for Tibet, said: "Considering Beijing's timeline for exhibiting itself as a world leader at the 2008 Beijing Olympics, initial steps must be taken now to reach a solution for Tibet."
The US government has repeatedly called for discussions between the Chinese government and the Dalai Lama or his representatives. Progress on Tibet is also necessary if a European Union arms embargo is to be lifted.
The first official EU visit to Tibet since 1998 starts next week. A group of ambassadors will be gathering information on human rights in preparation for a new round of EU-China talks.
The last visit in May 1998 was a disaster for all concerned. Unbeknown to the delegation of EU ambassadors, a protest broke out during their visit to the notorious Drapchi Prison, and a unit of China's People's Armed Police (PAP) were called in to suppress it. Eleven Tibetan prisoners were thought to have died in the weeks following the protests.
All the current political prisoners in Drapchi are still suffering from the tight restrictions placed on them as a consequence of that incident, even if they were not involved in the peaceful protests. Some political prisoners are reportedly still detained in punishment blocks. This time the EU ambassadors will not be going to Drapchi.
At the heart of the negotiations being conducted by Mr Gyari are efforts to find a formula to allow the Dalai Lama to return to Tibet as a religious leader in return for acknowledging Beijing's sovereignty over the country.
The Tibetans are seeking guarantees that the Dalai Lama would be permitted to live all the year in the Potala Palace and not be kept a virtual prison in Beijing. The Dalai Lama wants to have full control over the publication and editing of all religious texts and undisputed authority to appoint the abbots of monasteries and supervise the choice of the reincarnations of all living Buddhas. The Dalai Lama also wants full freedom to leave the country when he wishes and the right to travel to all regions of China inhabited by Tibetans. The majority of the seven million Tibetans live outside the boundaries of the Tibet Autonomous Region.
Officials working in Tibet fear that such is the Tibetans' deep reverence for the Dalai Lama that once he is installed in the Potala, he will inevitably become the source of all authority. Any theoretical separation of church and state will be impossible to maintain and the Chinese Communist Party will lose its influence over the Tibetans.
The Dalai Lama formally abandoned his ambition for full independence at the end of the 1980s and staked out what he calls his "middle way". His envoys had made some progress in the 1980s but both sides were caught out by a series of pro-independence protests in Tibet. The issue became tangled up in the struggle between hardliners and reformers in Beijing.
While in power Mr Jiang took a consistently hard line on both Tibet and Taiwan, partly to bolster his position, especially with the powerful Chinese military. Now that Mr Hu, who is 16 years younger, has replaced Mr Jiang as chairman of the Central Military Commission, he is better placed to stamp his own authority on a more moderate Tibet policy.
If formal talks were to start, discussions might well focus on the 17-point agreement made between the Tibetans and the Chinese Communists after the People's Liberation Army marched into Tibet in 1951. When this agreement was broken by Chairman Mao, who insisted on spreading the Communist Revolution to the Tibetans, they revolted and the Dalai Lama fled to India in 1959.
So many changes are taking place within China. Great things could happen before the Olympics open in Beijing in 2008. Hosting the Olympic games would be a great PR opportunity for China to show the world it is changing for the better.
The report, written by Jasper Becker in Beijing and dated September 24, 2004, is copied here in full for writing a post on at a later date as and when more news appears.
Envoys of the Dalai Lama are in Tibet discussing his possible return to the disputed mountain nation. Lodi Gyari, the Dalai Lama's quasi ambassador in Washington, is leading a four-man delegation which arrived in China a week ago.
It is the third such visit since contact was re-established between the two sides in September 2002.
Western diplomats believe that the resumption of talks is cause for optimism that the Tibetan holy leader could return home. "For the first time you have a Chinese leader who knows Tibet," said one diplomat.
Hu Jintao, who became head of the Chinese Communist Party two years ago, was party secretary of the Tibet Autonomous Region from 1988 to 1992. His predecessor, Jiang Zemin, retired from his last post on Sunday, leaving Mr Hu in complete control over foreign and domestic policies.
Mr Hu may push a more conciliatory line over Tibet and other issues as part of a broader effort both to normalise China's political system and to improve its international image.
Mary Beth Markey, executive director of the International Campaign for Tibet, said: "Considering Beijing's timeline for exhibiting itself as a world leader at the 2008 Beijing Olympics, initial steps must be taken now to reach a solution for Tibet."
The US government has repeatedly called for discussions between the Chinese government and the Dalai Lama or his representatives. Progress on Tibet is also necessary if a European Union arms embargo is to be lifted.
The first official EU visit to Tibet since 1998 starts next week. A group of ambassadors will be gathering information on human rights in preparation for a new round of EU-China talks.
The last visit in May 1998 was a disaster for all concerned. Unbeknown to the delegation of EU ambassadors, a protest broke out during their visit to the notorious Drapchi Prison, and a unit of China's People's Armed Police (PAP) were called in to suppress it. Eleven Tibetan prisoners were thought to have died in the weeks following the protests.
All the current political prisoners in Drapchi are still suffering from the tight restrictions placed on them as a consequence of that incident, even if they were not involved in the peaceful protests. Some political prisoners are reportedly still detained in punishment blocks. This time the EU ambassadors will not be going to Drapchi.
At the heart of the negotiations being conducted by Mr Gyari are efforts to find a formula to allow the Dalai Lama to return to Tibet as a religious leader in return for acknowledging Beijing's sovereignty over the country.
The Tibetans are seeking guarantees that the Dalai Lama would be permitted to live all the year in the Potala Palace and not be kept a virtual prison in Beijing. The Dalai Lama wants to have full control over the publication and editing of all religious texts and undisputed authority to appoint the abbots of monasteries and supervise the choice of the reincarnations of all living Buddhas. The Dalai Lama also wants full freedom to leave the country when he wishes and the right to travel to all regions of China inhabited by Tibetans. The majority of the seven million Tibetans live outside the boundaries of the Tibet Autonomous Region.
Officials working in Tibet fear that such is the Tibetans' deep reverence for the Dalai Lama that once he is installed in the Potala, he will inevitably become the source of all authority. Any theoretical separation of church and state will be impossible to maintain and the Chinese Communist Party will lose its influence over the Tibetans.
The Dalai Lama formally abandoned his ambition for full independence at the end of the 1980s and staked out what he calls his "middle way". His envoys had made some progress in the 1980s but both sides were caught out by a series of pro-independence protests in Tibet. The issue became tangled up in the struggle between hardliners and reformers in Beijing.
While in power Mr Jiang took a consistently hard line on both Tibet and Taiwan, partly to bolster his position, especially with the powerful Chinese military. Now that Mr Hu, who is 16 years younger, has replaced Mr Jiang as chairman of the Central Military Commission, he is better placed to stamp his own authority on a more moderate Tibet policy.
If formal talks were to start, discussions might well focus on the 17-point agreement made between the Tibetans and the Chinese Communists after the People's Liberation Army marched into Tibet in 1951. When this agreement was broken by Chairman Mao, who insisted on spreading the Communist Revolution to the Tibetans, they revolted and the Dalai Lama fled to India in 1959.
Dalai Lama's Five-Point Peace Plan for the restoration of peace and human rights in Tibet
The International Campaign for Tibet works to promote human rights and democratic freedoms for the people of Tibet.
Founded in 1988, ICT is a non-profit membership organisation with offices in Washington, Amsterdam and Berlin.
The following is an excerpt from ICT's website that outlines the Dalai Lama's Five-Point Peace Plan.
The Dalai Lama's Proposals
In 1987 the Dalai Lama proposed a Five-Point Peace Plan for the restoration of peace and human rights in Tibet. The plan called for:
1. Transformation of the whole of Tibet into a zone of Ahimsa, demilitarized zone of peace and non-violence.
2. Abandonment of China's population transfer policy, which threatened the very existence of the Tibetans as a people.
3. Respect for the Tibetan people's fundamental human rights and democratic freedoms;
4. Restoration of and protection of Tibet's natural environment and abandonment of China's use of Tibet for the production of nuclear weapons and dumping of nuclear waste;
5. Commencement of earnest negotiations on the future status of Tibet and of relations between the Tibetan and Chinese people.
In 1988 the Dalai Lama elaborated on the fifth point, proposing a concrete framework of negotiations. Tibet, he suggested, should become fully self-governing under a democratically elected government. China could maintain responsibility for the overall foreign policy of Tibet and, until such time as the Tibetan zone of Ahimsa is set up, following a regional conference on peace, China would also be permitted to maintain a restricted number of troops in Tibet for defensive purposes only.
These proposals were well received internationally, although the Chinese rejected them. At least, until the June 1989 crackdown on China's democracy movement, however, the Chinese indicated a willingness to talk in its communications with the Tibetan government in exile. This willingness was, it is now believed, in large part due to international pressure on China to negotiate with the Dalai Lama. Once again, communication between Beijing and the Tibetan government in exile has opened up but nothing substantive has resulted.
In August of 1993, two Tibetan representatives traveled to discuss the possibility of substantive negotiations. However, no major advances were made. Instead the Chinese only reiterated their empty statement that they are willing to discuss anything other then independence, while at the same time refusing to respond to any such initiatives by the Dalai Lama.
- - -
ICT's website states the current situation as follows, but unfortunately the report is undated.
Current Situation
Today the situation in Tibet is increasingly tense. The influx of Chinese increases; peaceful demonstrations in Lhasa and elsewhere take place despite the strong and often violent reaction of Chinese security forces. Thousands of Tibetans are imprisoned for their political or religious activities; torture is carried out regularly on detainees; Tibetans are rarely permitted to leave the country and access to Tibet by exiled Tibetans is limited. China has just opened Tibet to tourism, both individual and group, and to wider economic development. The "economic miracle" of China does not apply to Tibet, however, since the only community that is benefiting from economic incentives is the Chinese community. Indeed, the Chinese authorities are so worried that Tibetan political activity might disrupt business and public relations that repression in the major towns - and at the major monasteries - is very tight.
In recent years, and especially since the award to the Dalai Lama of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989, the concern shown by governments in Europe and the America, in particular, has grown considerably. A number of parliamentary bodies have passed resolutions condemning human rights violations in Tibet and calling for a peaceful resolution of the conflict in accordance with the Dalai Lama's plan. Heads of state, foreign ministers and other political leaders have received the Dalai Lama and his representatives and have shown a desire to be of assistance in promoting a peaceful resolution to the conflict, and thereby contributing to greater peace in the entire region. However, pressure tactics by China have thwarted efforts to make substantive headway to resolve the issue, and Tibet has continued to pay a terrible price for the failure of the world community to seriously challenge China on its behavior there. [end of report]
Founded in 1988, ICT is a non-profit membership organisation with offices in Washington, Amsterdam and Berlin.
The following is an excerpt from ICT's website that outlines the Dalai Lama's Five-Point Peace Plan.
The Dalai Lama's Proposals
In 1987 the Dalai Lama proposed a Five-Point Peace Plan for the restoration of peace and human rights in Tibet. The plan called for:
1. Transformation of the whole of Tibet into a zone of Ahimsa, demilitarized zone of peace and non-violence.
2. Abandonment of China's population transfer policy, which threatened the very existence of the Tibetans as a people.
3. Respect for the Tibetan people's fundamental human rights and democratic freedoms;
4. Restoration of and protection of Tibet's natural environment and abandonment of China's use of Tibet for the production of nuclear weapons and dumping of nuclear waste;
5. Commencement of earnest negotiations on the future status of Tibet and of relations between the Tibetan and Chinese people.
In 1988 the Dalai Lama elaborated on the fifth point, proposing a concrete framework of negotiations. Tibet, he suggested, should become fully self-governing under a democratically elected government. China could maintain responsibility for the overall foreign policy of Tibet and, until such time as the Tibetan zone of Ahimsa is set up, following a regional conference on peace, China would also be permitted to maintain a restricted number of troops in Tibet for defensive purposes only.
These proposals were well received internationally, although the Chinese rejected them. At least, until the June 1989 crackdown on China's democracy movement, however, the Chinese indicated a willingness to talk in its communications with the Tibetan government in exile. This willingness was, it is now believed, in large part due to international pressure on China to negotiate with the Dalai Lama. Once again, communication between Beijing and the Tibetan government in exile has opened up but nothing substantive has resulted.
In August of 1993, two Tibetan representatives traveled to discuss the possibility of substantive negotiations. However, no major advances were made. Instead the Chinese only reiterated their empty statement that they are willing to discuss anything other then independence, while at the same time refusing to respond to any such initiatives by the Dalai Lama.
- - -
ICT's website states the current situation as follows, but unfortunately the report is undated.
Current Situation
Today the situation in Tibet is increasingly tense. The influx of Chinese increases; peaceful demonstrations in Lhasa and elsewhere take place despite the strong and often violent reaction of Chinese security forces. Thousands of Tibetans are imprisoned for their political or religious activities; torture is carried out regularly on detainees; Tibetans are rarely permitted to leave the country and access to Tibet by exiled Tibetans is limited. China has just opened Tibet to tourism, both individual and group, and to wider economic development. The "economic miracle" of China does not apply to Tibet, however, since the only community that is benefiting from economic incentives is the Chinese community. Indeed, the Chinese authorities are so worried that Tibetan political activity might disrupt business and public relations that repression in the major towns - and at the major monasteries - is very tight.
In recent years, and especially since the award to the Dalai Lama of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989, the concern shown by governments in Europe and the America, in particular, has grown considerably. A number of parliamentary bodies have passed resolutions condemning human rights violations in Tibet and calling for a peaceful resolution of the conflict in accordance with the Dalai Lama's plan. Heads of state, foreign ministers and other political leaders have received the Dalai Lama and his representatives and have shown a desire to be of assistance in promoting a peaceful resolution to the conflict, and thereby contributing to greater peace in the entire region. However, pressure tactics by China have thwarted efforts to make substantive headway to resolve the issue, and Tibet has continued to pay a terrible price for the failure of the world community to seriously challenge China on its behavior there. [end of report]
Friday, September 17, 2004
TIBET: CRY OF THE SNOW LION - Dalai Lama's Five Point Peace Plan
This movie review, with new photos, has moved to above post dated Thursday, September 29, 2005
Tags: Tibet China Snow Lion movie review dharma human rights Dalai Lama Buddha
Tags: Tibet China Snow Lion movie review dharma human rights Dalai Lama Buddha
China, Egypt, and the new alliance of China with Arab and African states
The following post entitled "China, Egypt, and the new alliance of China with Arab and African states" is authored by Jim Moore and copied here, in full, for future reference:
For some time I have been emphasizing that the Chinese are in the process of establishing deep relationships with the more authoritarian leaders in the Arab and African world. My now many months of study of the situation in Sudan has helped me see that the Chinese are powerfully exploiting the opportunity provided by an Arab world frightened of the US, and wishing to preserve its authoritarian social structures and abusive human rights practices. For China these alliances solve a big and rapidly expanding problem: how to supply itself with oil, and do so in the face of increased demand from other nations as well.
Here are two stories from Al-Alwah, the independent English-language newspaper based in Egypt. This is not a radical paper, nor is it a propaganda organ. These pieces are important to understand and absorb.
The first is a news report on the recent meeting of Arab League foreign ministers, and how all the nations are so afraid of the US, and so split in how to respond, that nothing could be done in concert at the meeting. United in fear, by Dina Ezzat
For this official and many Arab diplomats the pacific nature of this week's meeting of Arab foreign ministers, and of the meeting of Arab ministers of economy -- under the umbrella of the Arab Economic and Social Council -- which preceded it, should not be read as an indication of a new-found unity of purpose.
"Not at all. It is just that we have given up hoping to do anything, or for that matter to say anything," said one permanent representative to the Arab League. He elaborated that rather than attempt to bridge the deep chasms dividing them, the Arab states seem to have conceded that these are insurmountable.
The dividing line, he went on to explain, is delineated by the nature of relations with the US. "Some of us have more than strategic ties with the US while some others are still being viewed by the US as enemies. And at the end of the day we are all afraid of the US, either out of fear of military intervention and economic sanctions, or because of the military and security dependence that some Arab countries have on the US."
Such caving in to a regional Pax Americana is ominous, suggest a number of Arab diplomats, one described it as "disturbing and indicative of the disintegration of the Arab regional system".
Here is one of many fascinating examples of diplomatic signalling at the meeting. Syria seems to be trying to figure out how to come to positive terms with the US, or at least to be working hard to avoid provoking the US:
On the eve of the Arab foreign ministers meeting Kuwaiti Foreign Minister Mohamed Al-Sobbah, speaking on behalf of the GCC, made an unprecedented call upon Syria to pull out its troops out of Lebanon.
Jordanian Foreign Minister Marwan Al-Moashar, whose country shares the GCC's close relationship with the US, took a similar line. In a statement he made before arriving in Cairo, he said Amman was expecting Syria to respond to the demands made by UN Security Council Resolution 1559. The resolution calls on Syria to pull its troops out of Lebanon.
For their part, neither the Syrian nor the Lebanese delegations asked for the Arab foreign ministers meeting to adopt a stance against this resolution.
The joint Syrian-Lebanese demand was for an Arab resolution that indicates support for both countries in the face of any potential aggression.
Syrian diplomats were "working very hard to structure a new relationship with the US on the basis of mutual cooperation on regional security matters in Iraq on one hand and Syria- Lebanon-Palestine, on the other" said one Arab diplomat. Damascus was not expecting Arab foreign ministers to take a stance against the harsh US anti- Syrian rhetoric.
The second is an op-ed that discusses the potential of the emerging Chinese-Arab relationship as a counter to the "Zionist-American" threat. I do not put these articles up to be provacative at all, but only because I think they represent a kind of thinking, a political reality, that we need to understand as we address issues in the Arab and African world--such as the genocide in Sudan. China's message to the Arabs, by Anouar Abdel-Malek
There is light at the end of the tunnel. The ideas, sentiments, and interests of the Arabs and China have come together at last, under the auspices of the Arab League. Sino-Arab cooperation can release the potential of two of the world's greatest civilisations. The visit to Cairo by Chinese Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing has opened the way for a great partnership, one that may influence the course of our progress, one that may save us from the buffeting winds of this increasingly perilous world. But what do the Arabs and Chinese have in common? Why is it that we need to forge close ties with Asia, and particularly the Chinese? And do the ancient countries of the Silk Road have much in common?
Later in the piece he gives his answer:
...With the Zionist-American aggression besieging, and haemorrhaging, our nations, one is tempted to think of where we have gone wrong with strategy. At a time when aggression follows aggression, when our independence and unity are at stake, one is tempted to acknowledge the message China has for Egypt and the Arab world. The message is best conveyed in the words of Sun Tzu, China's leading political and strategic writer of the fifth century BC. In The Art of War, the world's oldest military treatise, Sun Tzu has this to say: "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. What is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy."
This is the message we have to keep in mind. It is a message that is inherent to our freedom, to our quest to resist the waves of turmoil and bloodshed coming our way, to our inherent revulsion at an international order controlled by a single power. The Zionist- American quest is wreaking havoc on the Arab world, from Iraq to Palestine and beyond. And it is not armies alone that we have to worry about. It is the thinking that sent the armies, and the strategy that lies behind that thinking.
We have to remember the word of Sun Tzu, and "attack the enemy's strategy". This is what the Arabs and Chinese have in common: the need for a strategy of their own. There is great potential here and in Asia, and this potential does not have to remain unexplored. If we want to survive the Zionist-American quest we have to reformulate our own.
There is a tremendous strategic opening right now. It seems to me that on the one hand, US action--reckless though it has been--has unfrozen situations that have been static and unyielding, such as relationships with Syria, as indicated by talk at the Arab League meeting.
On the other hand, into this "unfrozen" and amorphous situation the Chinese are moving quickly, offering an alternative to the US.
And the US mechanism of unfreezing--war--has led to fear becoming the main response to the US, with respect following. On the other hand, it seems that many in the Arab and African world have a new respect for China, and do not particularly fear her. This bodes well for China in creating alliances, obviously, and not so well for the US.
I do not believe that either US presidential candidate, or either US administration, is adequately paying attention to this situation. And yet China is clearly the second most powerful nation on earth now--and gaining. The combined Arab and African worlds contain vast oil reserves. These worlds also are controlled by a number of the world's most authoritarian governments. If we care about any of the following--US economic and political leadership, US access to oil, or the promotion of democracy and human rights across the world--we need to be paying attention. All points on the political spectrum will find important issues in this situation: "nationalists," "realists," and "idealists."
Posted by James Moore on 9/17/04; 2:37:45 AM from the Economics and cybenetics dept
Further reading:
[Note to self: insert links here to Jim Moore's other posts on China and 'The Genocide Bloc']
- - -
QUOTATIONS
Courtesy of Third World Traveler
Here are some quotes, courtesy Third World Traveler. The first three are my favourites:
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
Margaret Mead
- - -
"The only way to abolish war is to make peace heroic."
John Dewey, American philosopher and educator, 1859-1952
- - -
"It is only when a society shares caring values that its people can feel secure."
Michael Lerner, philosopher, psychologist, author
- - -
"Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience ... Therefore [individual citizens] have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring."
Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal, 1950
- - -
"If we'd been born where they were born and taught what they were taught, we would believe what they believe.
A sign inside a church in Northern Ireland, explaining the origin of intolerance and hate
- - -
"Many of us regard ourselves as mildly liberal or centrist politically, voice fairly pleasant sentiments about our poor children, contribute money to send poor kids to summer camp, feel benevolent. We're not nazis; we're nice people. We read sophisticated books. We go to church. We go to synagogue. Meanwhile, we put other people's children into an economic and environmental death zone. We make it hard for them to get out. We strip the place bare of amenities. And we sit back and say to ourselves, "Well, I hope that they don't kill each other off. But if they do, it's not my fault."
Jonathan Kozol, educator and author
- - -
"The range of debate between the dominant U.S. [political] parties tends to closely resemble the range of debate within the business class."
Robert McChesney, author and media critic
- - -
"Quite simply, there can be no popular sovereignty without a real belief in the value of government. If government does not assume and carry out public responsibilities, less accountable institutions such as the corporation will do the job in their own self-interest."
Charles Derber, Corporation Nation
- - -
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
- - -
"If those in charge of our society - politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television - can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves."
Howard Zinn, historian and author
- - -
"The goal of conservative rulers around the world, led by those who occupy the seats of power in Washington, is the systematic rollback of democratic gains, public services, and common living standards around the world."
Michael Parenti
- - -
"To accept opinions is to gain the good solid feeling of being correct without having to think."
C. Wright Mills - from the book The Power Elite
- - -
"Propaganda is to a democracy what violence is to a dictatorship."
William Blum - Rogue State, on how governments control their citizens
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"Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism.... Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all others."
Emma Goldman, American anarchist and feminist, 1869-1940
- - -
"The United States is not only number one in military power but also in the effectiveness of its propaganda system."
Edward S. Herman, political economist and author
- - -
"In the United States, both the upper levels of the Republican and Democratic Parties are in the pay of the corporate media and communication giants."
Robert McChesney and John Nichols, media critics and authors
- - -
"The most unpardonable sin in society is independence of thought."
Emma Goldman, American anarchist and feminist, 1869-1940
- - -
"For the last fifty years we've been supporting right-wing governments, and that is a puzzlement to me...I don't understand what there is in the American character... that almost automatically, even when we have a liberal President, we support fascist dictatorships or are tolerant towards them."
William Shirer, author
- - -
"No form of government, once in power, can be trusted to limit its own ambition, to extend freedom and to wither away. This means that it is up to the citizenry, those outside of power, to engage in permanent combat with the state, short of violent, escalatory revolution, but beyond the gentility of the ballot-box, to insure justice, freedom and well being."
Howard Zinn, on the need for dissent and non-violent protest
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" I am astonished each time I come to the U.S. by the ignorance of a high percentage of the population, which knows almost nothing about Latin America or about the world. It's quite blind and deaf to anything that may happen outside the frontiers of the U.S."
Eduardo Galeano, Latin American writer and historian
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" When everyone is thinking the same, no one is thinking."
John Wooden
- - -
"To provide its happy people with perpetual fun is now the deepest purpose of Western civilization."
Jeremy Seabrook, Third World Network
- - -
" With unfailing consistancy, U.S. intervention has been on the side of the rich and powerful of various nations at the expense of the poor and needy. Rather than strengthening democracies, U.S. leaders have overthrown numerous democratically elected governments or other populist regimes in dozens of countries ... whenever these nations give evidence of putting the interests of their people ahead of the interests of multinational corporate interests."
Michael Parenti, political scientist and author
- - -
" If an American is concerned only about his nation, he will not be concerned about the peoples of Asia, Africa, or South America. Is this not why nations engage in the madness of war without the slightest sense of penitence? Is this not why the murder of a citizen of your own nation is a crime, but the murder of citizens of another nation in war is an act of heroic virtue? "
Martin Luther King, Jr.
- - -
"The only thing worth globalizing is dissent."
Arundhati Roy, author
- - -
"There is no reason to accept the doctrines crafted to sustain power and privilege, or to believe that we are constrained by mysterious and unknown social laws. These are simply decisions made within institutions that are subject to human will and that must face the test of legitimacy. And if they do not meet the test, they can be replaced by other institutions that are more free and more just, as has happened often in the past."
Noam Chomsky, American linguist and US media and foreign policy critic
- - -
"What would have happened if millions of American and British people, struggling with coupons and lines at the gas stations, had learned that in 1942 Standard Oil of New Jersey [part of the Rockefeller empire] managers shipped the enemy's fuel through neutral Switzerland and that the enemy was shipping Allied fuel?
Suppose the public had discovered that the Chase Bank in Nazi-occupied Paris after Pearl Harbor was doing millions of dollars' worth of business with the enemy with the full knowledge of the head office in Manhattan [the Rockefeller family among others?] Or that Ford trucks were being built for the German occupation troops in France with authorization from Dearborn, Michigan? Or that Colonel Sosthenes Behn, the head of the international American telephone conglomerate ITT, flew from New York to Madrid to Berne during the war to help improve Hitler's communications systems and improve the robot bombs that devastated London? Or that ITT built the FockeWulfs that dropped bombs on British and American troops? Or that crucial balI bearings were shipped to Nazi-associated customers in Latin America with the collusion of the vice-chairman of the U.S. War Production Board in partnership with Goering's cousin in Philadelphia when American forces were desperately short of them? Or that such arrangements were known about in Washington and either sanctioned or deliberately ignored?"
Charles Higham, researcher, about U.S.- Nazi collaboration during WWII
- - -
"Four sorrows ... are certain to be visited on the United States. Their cumulative effect guarantees that the U.S. will cease to resemble the country outlined in the Constitution of 1787.
First, there will be a state of perpetual war, leading to more terrorism against Americans wherever they may be and a spreading reliance on nuclear weapons among smaller nations as they try to ward off the imperial juggernaut.
Second is a loss of democracy and Constitutional rights as the presidency eclipses Congress and is itself transformed from a co-equal 'executive branch' of government into a military junta.
Third is the replacement of truth by propaganda, disinformation, and the glorification of war, power, and the military legions.
Lastly, there is bankruptcy, as the United States pours its economic resources into ever more grandiose military projects and shortchanges the education, health, and safety of its citizens."
Chalmers Johnson, Sorrows of Empire
- - -
"Corporations care very much about maintaining the myth that government is necessarily ineffective, except when it is spending money on the military-industrial complex, building prisons, or providing infrastructural support for the business sector."
Michael Lerner, philosopher, psychologist, author
- - -
" If envy were the cause of terrorism, Beverly Hills [and] Fifth Avenue ... would have become targets long ago. "
Fareed Zakaria, Newsweek
- - -
"Those in power are blind devotees to private enterprise. They accept that degree of socialism implicit in the vast subsidies to the military-industrial-complex, but not that type of socialism which maintains public projects for the disemployed and the unemployed alike."
William O. Douglas, former U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1969
- - -
"Leaders symbolize what the country stands for. As corruption becomes routine in Washington in both parties, it trickles down as a corrupting influence in everyone's lives... Democracy is the ultimate casualty, and the sapping of democratic life is the most serious contribution of corporate ascendancy to our spiritual decline. As democracy ebbs, Americans retreat into private cocoons, feeling helpless to make a difference... In a democracy, civic participation and the belief in one's ability to contribute to the common good is the most important guarantor of public morality. When that belief fades, so too does the vision of the common good itself."
Charles Derber, Corporation Nation
For some time I have been emphasizing that the Chinese are in the process of establishing deep relationships with the more authoritarian leaders in the Arab and African world. My now many months of study of the situation in Sudan has helped me see that the Chinese are powerfully exploiting the opportunity provided by an Arab world frightened of the US, and wishing to preserve its authoritarian social structures and abusive human rights practices. For China these alliances solve a big and rapidly expanding problem: how to supply itself with oil, and do so in the face of increased demand from other nations as well.
Here are two stories from Al-Alwah, the independent English-language newspaper based in Egypt. This is not a radical paper, nor is it a propaganda organ. These pieces are important to understand and absorb.
The first is a news report on the recent meeting of Arab League foreign ministers, and how all the nations are so afraid of the US, and so split in how to respond, that nothing could be done in concert at the meeting. United in fear, by Dina Ezzat
For this official and many Arab diplomats the pacific nature of this week's meeting of Arab foreign ministers, and of the meeting of Arab ministers of economy -- under the umbrella of the Arab Economic and Social Council -- which preceded it, should not be read as an indication of a new-found unity of purpose.
"Not at all. It is just that we have given up hoping to do anything, or for that matter to say anything," said one permanent representative to the Arab League. He elaborated that rather than attempt to bridge the deep chasms dividing them, the Arab states seem to have conceded that these are insurmountable.
The dividing line, he went on to explain, is delineated by the nature of relations with the US. "Some of us have more than strategic ties with the US while some others are still being viewed by the US as enemies. And at the end of the day we are all afraid of the US, either out of fear of military intervention and economic sanctions, or because of the military and security dependence that some Arab countries have on the US."
Such caving in to a regional Pax Americana is ominous, suggest a number of Arab diplomats, one described it as "disturbing and indicative of the disintegration of the Arab regional system".
Here is one of many fascinating examples of diplomatic signalling at the meeting. Syria seems to be trying to figure out how to come to positive terms with the US, or at least to be working hard to avoid provoking the US:
On the eve of the Arab foreign ministers meeting Kuwaiti Foreign Minister Mohamed Al-Sobbah, speaking on behalf of the GCC, made an unprecedented call upon Syria to pull out its troops out of Lebanon.
Jordanian Foreign Minister Marwan Al-Moashar, whose country shares the GCC's close relationship with the US, took a similar line. In a statement he made before arriving in Cairo, he said Amman was expecting Syria to respond to the demands made by UN Security Council Resolution 1559. The resolution calls on Syria to pull its troops out of Lebanon.
For their part, neither the Syrian nor the Lebanese delegations asked for the Arab foreign ministers meeting to adopt a stance against this resolution.
The joint Syrian-Lebanese demand was for an Arab resolution that indicates support for both countries in the face of any potential aggression.
Syrian diplomats were "working very hard to structure a new relationship with the US on the basis of mutual cooperation on regional security matters in Iraq on one hand and Syria- Lebanon-Palestine, on the other" said one Arab diplomat. Damascus was not expecting Arab foreign ministers to take a stance against the harsh US anti- Syrian rhetoric.
The second is an op-ed that discusses the potential of the emerging Chinese-Arab relationship as a counter to the "Zionist-American" threat. I do not put these articles up to be provacative at all, but only because I think they represent a kind of thinking, a political reality, that we need to understand as we address issues in the Arab and African world--such as the genocide in Sudan. China's message to the Arabs, by Anouar Abdel-Malek
There is light at the end of the tunnel. The ideas, sentiments, and interests of the Arabs and China have come together at last, under the auspices of the Arab League. Sino-Arab cooperation can release the potential of two of the world's greatest civilisations. The visit to Cairo by Chinese Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing has opened the way for a great partnership, one that may influence the course of our progress, one that may save us from the buffeting winds of this increasingly perilous world. But what do the Arabs and Chinese have in common? Why is it that we need to forge close ties with Asia, and particularly the Chinese? And do the ancient countries of the Silk Road have much in common?
Later in the piece he gives his answer:
...With the Zionist-American aggression besieging, and haemorrhaging, our nations, one is tempted to think of where we have gone wrong with strategy. At a time when aggression follows aggression, when our independence and unity are at stake, one is tempted to acknowledge the message China has for Egypt and the Arab world. The message is best conveyed in the words of Sun Tzu, China's leading political and strategic writer of the fifth century BC. In The Art of War, the world's oldest military treatise, Sun Tzu has this to say: "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. What is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy."
This is the message we have to keep in mind. It is a message that is inherent to our freedom, to our quest to resist the waves of turmoil and bloodshed coming our way, to our inherent revulsion at an international order controlled by a single power. The Zionist- American quest is wreaking havoc on the Arab world, from Iraq to Palestine and beyond. And it is not armies alone that we have to worry about. It is the thinking that sent the armies, and the strategy that lies behind that thinking.
We have to remember the word of Sun Tzu, and "attack the enemy's strategy". This is what the Arabs and Chinese have in common: the need for a strategy of their own. There is great potential here and in Asia, and this potential does not have to remain unexplored. If we want to survive the Zionist-American quest we have to reformulate our own.
There is a tremendous strategic opening right now. It seems to me that on the one hand, US action--reckless though it has been--has unfrozen situations that have been static and unyielding, such as relationships with Syria, as indicated by talk at the Arab League meeting.
On the other hand, into this "unfrozen" and amorphous situation the Chinese are moving quickly, offering an alternative to the US.
And the US mechanism of unfreezing--war--has led to fear becoming the main response to the US, with respect following. On the other hand, it seems that many in the Arab and African world have a new respect for China, and do not particularly fear her. This bodes well for China in creating alliances, obviously, and not so well for the US.
I do not believe that either US presidential candidate, or either US administration, is adequately paying attention to this situation. And yet China is clearly the second most powerful nation on earth now--and gaining. The combined Arab and African worlds contain vast oil reserves. These worlds also are controlled by a number of the world's most authoritarian governments. If we care about any of the following--US economic and political leadership, US access to oil, or the promotion of democracy and human rights across the world--we need to be paying attention. All points on the political spectrum will find important issues in this situation: "nationalists," "realists," and "idealists."
Posted by James Moore on 9/17/04; 2:37:45 AM from the Economics and cybenetics dept
Further reading:
[Note to self: insert links here to Jim Moore's other posts on China and 'The Genocide Bloc']
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QUOTATIONS
Courtesy of Third World Traveler
Here are some quotes, courtesy Third World Traveler. The first three are my favourites:
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
Margaret Mead
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"The only way to abolish war is to make peace heroic."
John Dewey, American philosopher and educator, 1859-1952
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"It is only when a society shares caring values that its people can feel secure."
Michael Lerner, philosopher, psychologist, author
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"Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience ... Therefore [individual citizens] have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring."
Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal, 1950
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"If we'd been born where they were born and taught what they were taught, we would believe what they believe.
A sign inside a church in Northern Ireland, explaining the origin of intolerance and hate
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"Many of us regard ourselves as mildly liberal or centrist politically, voice fairly pleasant sentiments about our poor children, contribute money to send poor kids to summer camp, feel benevolent. We're not nazis; we're nice people. We read sophisticated books. We go to church. We go to synagogue. Meanwhile, we put other people's children into an economic and environmental death zone. We make it hard for them to get out. We strip the place bare of amenities. And we sit back and say to ourselves, "Well, I hope that they don't kill each other off. But if they do, it's not my fault."
Jonathan Kozol, educator and author
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"The range of debate between the dominant U.S. [political] parties tends to closely resemble the range of debate within the business class."
Robert McChesney, author and media critic
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"Quite simply, there can be no popular sovereignty without a real belief in the value of government. If government does not assume and carry out public responsibilities, less accountable institutions such as the corporation will do the job in their own self-interest."
Charles Derber, Corporation Nation
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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"If those in charge of our society - politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television - can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves."
Howard Zinn, historian and author
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"The goal of conservative rulers around the world, led by those who occupy the seats of power in Washington, is the systematic rollback of democratic gains, public services, and common living standards around the world."
Michael Parenti
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"To accept opinions is to gain the good solid feeling of being correct without having to think."
C. Wright Mills - from the book The Power Elite
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"Propaganda is to a democracy what violence is to a dictatorship."
William Blum - Rogue State, on how governments control their citizens
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"Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism.... Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all others."
Emma Goldman, American anarchist and feminist, 1869-1940
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"The United States is not only number one in military power but also in the effectiveness of its propaganda system."
Edward S. Herman, political economist and author
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"In the United States, both the upper levels of the Republican and Democratic Parties are in the pay of the corporate media and communication giants."
Robert McChesney and John Nichols, media critics and authors
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"The most unpardonable sin in society is independence of thought."
Emma Goldman, American anarchist and feminist, 1869-1940
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"For the last fifty years we've been supporting right-wing governments, and that is a puzzlement to me...I don't understand what there is in the American character... that almost automatically, even when we have a liberal President, we support fascist dictatorships or are tolerant towards them."
William Shirer, author
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"No form of government, once in power, can be trusted to limit its own ambition, to extend freedom and to wither away. This means that it is up to the citizenry, those outside of power, to engage in permanent combat with the state, short of violent, escalatory revolution, but beyond the gentility of the ballot-box, to insure justice, freedom and well being."
Howard Zinn, on the need for dissent and non-violent protest
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" I am astonished each time I come to the U.S. by the ignorance of a high percentage of the population, which knows almost nothing about Latin America or about the world. It's quite blind and deaf to anything that may happen outside the frontiers of the U.S."
Eduardo Galeano, Latin American writer and historian
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" When everyone is thinking the same, no one is thinking."
John Wooden
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"To provide its happy people with perpetual fun is now the deepest purpose of Western civilization."
Jeremy Seabrook, Third World Network
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" With unfailing consistancy, U.S. intervention has been on the side of the rich and powerful of various nations at the expense of the poor and needy. Rather than strengthening democracies, U.S. leaders have overthrown numerous democratically elected governments or other populist regimes in dozens of countries ... whenever these nations give evidence of putting the interests of their people ahead of the interests of multinational corporate interests."
Michael Parenti, political scientist and author
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" If an American is concerned only about his nation, he will not be concerned about the peoples of Asia, Africa, or South America. Is this not why nations engage in the madness of war without the slightest sense of penitence? Is this not why the murder of a citizen of your own nation is a crime, but the murder of citizens of another nation in war is an act of heroic virtue? "
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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"The only thing worth globalizing is dissent."
Arundhati Roy, author
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"There is no reason to accept the doctrines crafted to sustain power and privilege, or to believe that we are constrained by mysterious and unknown social laws. These are simply decisions made within institutions that are subject to human will and that must face the test of legitimacy. And if they do not meet the test, they can be replaced by other institutions that are more free and more just, as has happened often in the past."
Noam Chomsky, American linguist and US media and foreign policy critic
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"What would have happened if millions of American and British people, struggling with coupons and lines at the gas stations, had learned that in 1942 Standard Oil of New Jersey [part of the Rockefeller empire] managers shipped the enemy's fuel through neutral Switzerland and that the enemy was shipping Allied fuel?
Suppose the public had discovered that the Chase Bank in Nazi-occupied Paris after Pearl Harbor was doing millions of dollars' worth of business with the enemy with the full knowledge of the head office in Manhattan [the Rockefeller family among others?] Or that Ford trucks were being built for the German occupation troops in France with authorization from Dearborn, Michigan? Or that Colonel Sosthenes Behn, the head of the international American telephone conglomerate ITT, flew from New York to Madrid to Berne during the war to help improve Hitler's communications systems and improve the robot bombs that devastated London? Or that ITT built the FockeWulfs that dropped bombs on British and American troops? Or that crucial balI bearings were shipped to Nazi-associated customers in Latin America with the collusion of the vice-chairman of the U.S. War Production Board in partnership with Goering's cousin in Philadelphia when American forces were desperately short of them? Or that such arrangements were known about in Washington and either sanctioned or deliberately ignored?"
Charles Higham, researcher, about U.S.- Nazi collaboration during WWII
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"Four sorrows ... are certain to be visited on the United States. Their cumulative effect guarantees that the U.S. will cease to resemble the country outlined in the Constitution of 1787.
First, there will be a state of perpetual war, leading to more terrorism against Americans wherever they may be and a spreading reliance on nuclear weapons among smaller nations as they try to ward off the imperial juggernaut.
Second is a loss of democracy and Constitutional rights as the presidency eclipses Congress and is itself transformed from a co-equal 'executive branch' of government into a military junta.
Third is the replacement of truth by propaganda, disinformation, and the glorification of war, power, and the military legions.
Lastly, there is bankruptcy, as the United States pours its economic resources into ever more grandiose military projects and shortchanges the education, health, and safety of its citizens."
Chalmers Johnson, Sorrows of Empire
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"Corporations care very much about maintaining the myth that government is necessarily ineffective, except when it is spending money on the military-industrial complex, building prisons, or providing infrastructural support for the business sector."
Michael Lerner, philosopher, psychologist, author
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" If envy were the cause of terrorism, Beverly Hills [and] Fifth Avenue ... would have become targets long ago. "
Fareed Zakaria, Newsweek
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"Those in power are blind devotees to private enterprise. They accept that degree of socialism implicit in the vast subsidies to the military-industrial-complex, but not that type of socialism which maintains public projects for the disemployed and the unemployed alike."
William O. Douglas, former U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1969
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"Leaders symbolize what the country stands for. As corruption becomes routine in Washington in both parties, it trickles down as a corrupting influence in everyone's lives... Democracy is the ultimate casualty, and the sapping of democratic life is the most serious contribution of corporate ascendancy to our spiritual decline. As democracy ebbs, Americans retreat into private cocoons, feeling helpless to make a difference... In a democracy, civic participation and the belief in one's ability to contribute to the common good is the most important guarantor of public morality. When that belief fades, so too does the vision of the common good itself."
Charles Derber, Corporation Nation
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